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we are just getting this report from pete williams, michael. first of all, the names of the suspected and some updates on their ages. dzhokhar born in 1993 identified by the fbi as wearing the white hat. he does have confirming a massachusetts license. a resident of cambridge and we are told now he was born in kyrgyzstan. his brother's age is 26 and born in russia and became a permanent legal residents in 2007. also pete williams reporting we are told the brothers came with their family to the united states in either 2002 or 2003. very fresh information. no reason to draw any conclusions from just this. just more pieces of the puzzle that we will slowly pull together. the bigger issue now is the manhunt under wail and the safety of the people in the boston and watertown area. having that said, michael, given your experience and without going too far, let's look at what has happened. let's look at what they reportedly have done to attack in the way they did, the boston marathon. an international event. iconic american event. the oldest marathon
we are just getting this report from pete williams, michael. first of all, the names of the suspected and some updates on their ages. dzhokhar born in 1993 identified by the fbi as wearing the white hat. he does have confirming a massachusetts license. a resident of cambridge and we are told now he was born in kyrgyzstan. his brother's age is 26 and born in russia and became a permanent legal residents in 2007. also pete williams reporting we are told the brothers came with their family to the...
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joining me now nbc news justice correspondent pete williams. >> lawrence, good evening. investigators know for certain that this attack involved two bombs, but what they don't know is whether there were any other explosives involved. and frankly, the information on this is confused tonight. at least five other packages found on the street were deemed to be suspicious, and were destroyed by boston police and bomb squad techs. and there were many packages to check, officials say, because after the explosions, people simply dropped what they were carrying and ran away. we have heard, quite frankly, conflicting accounts about whether there were exploded bombs. officials say tonight that two other packages were found that contain some form of explosives, but other officials say there were just the two bombs. the two that went off. so safe to say that remains unclear. several officials say the bombs that did go off included shrapnel that multiplied the injuries, small bits of metal, bbs and ball bearings they're saying. they're looking at surveillance video to see anyone placi
joining me now nbc news justice correspondent pete williams. >> lawrence, good evening. investigators know for certain that this attack involved two bombs, but what they don't know is whether there were any other explosives involved. and frankly, the information on this is confused tonight. at least five other packages found on the street were deemed to be suspicious, and were destroyed by boston police and bomb squad techs. and there were many packages to check, officials say, because...
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the prior -- conversation with pete williams was especially interesting. here's a little more of what we know. pete reported on part of this earlier. the 7-eleven robbery takes place a few blocks on the north street and cambridge where the two brothers lived. robbed the 7-eleven. they then shoot the m.i.t. campus police officer, who is in his car. the reasoning we're told is he, they probably thought that the police officer recognized them from their photographs being published everywhere and up on the tv screens everywhere and hours earlier by the fbi in the afternoon. they carjack an individual who is driving a mercedes suv. authorities know who the individual is. the news media know who the individual is. we know his name. we're not going to report his name, obviously. he has been fully debriefed. and is really part of a really interesting equation to this whole awful, awful story. in that they hijacked the car. they take his credit card. and they make three different attempts with his credit card to withdraw money from atm machines. the first one faile
the prior -- conversation with pete williams was especially interesting. here's a little more of what we know. pete reported on part of this earlier. the 7-eleven robbery takes place a few blocks on the north street and cambridge where the two brothers lived. robbed the 7-eleven. they then shoot the m.i.t. campus police officer, who is in his car. the reasoning we're told is he, they probably thought that the police officer recognized them from their photographs being published everywhere and...
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. >> governor, the question now we have on the record now, thanks to pete williams, we have the fact two men seen carrying heavy bags near the site of the bombings. if this comes into vision now, pictures we've been looking at on the internet of people actually putting bombs down and leaving, they're more to the civilian eye than just people of interest. they look like they're the guys. that's the way people are going to look at it. the civil liberties aspect to this, if you put a picture out of a person saying, pretty much we think these people are involved, somehow, perpetrators, and somebody shoots them or chases them down, something, an accident happened, for example, the government is taking responsibility for this once they put the pictures out. >> i think they are. they have to. at the end of the day, there comes a point in time where obviously they could not identify these individuals with all the other potential pieces of information they had. so do they eat their lunch at a particular place? rent an apartment? do they socialize with a particular group? frankly it says to me
. >> governor, the question now we have on the record now, thanks to pete williams, we have the fact two men seen carrying heavy bags near the site of the bombings. if this comes into vision now, pictures we've been looking at on the internet of people actually putting bombs down and leaving, they're more to the civilian eye than just people of interest. they look like they're the guys. that's the way people are going to look at it. the civil liberties aspect to this, if you put a picture...
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pete williams and chuck todd join us next. you're watching "morning joe" live from boston. >>> on days like this, there are no republicans and democrats, we are americans united in concern for our fellow citizens. i've also spoken with governor patrick and made it clear they have every federal resource necessary to care for the victims and counsel the families. and above all, i made clear to them that all americans stand with the people of boston. >> clear the set. >> that was president obama yesterday, and as you see in washington, d.c. on capitol hill, flags are at half staff this morning. joining us now from washington, nbc chief news white house correspondent and political director and host of the "daily rundown" chuck todd. and pete williams with the latest on the investigation. pete, we'll start with you. bring us up to date. >> okay, mika. one of the confusing things about what's going on here is how many devices were there. now, obviously we know there were two. the two that went off. but we've been hearing for all of
pete williams and chuck todd join us next. you're watching "morning joe" live from boston. >>> on days like this, there are no republicans and democrats, we are americans united in concern for our fellow citizens. i've also spoken with governor patrick and made it clear they have every federal resource necessary to care for the victims and counsel the families. and above all, i made clear to them that all americans stand with the people of boston. >> clear the set....
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you heard pete williams. in an investigation, they see a picture, they want to talk to obviously anyone who might be seen putting down a package. that doesn't mean a person is a suspect, but certain -- >> when pete was given the description, it reminded me of the times that you and i, a lot of americans buy those 1,000 or 5,000-piece puzzle. magnify that by a million. they have more pictures or videos that you can imagine, but they'll do it in a me tick las incremental way just as they're picking up pieces of evidence on the scene, they'll do the same thing with the picture puzzle from all the video undoubtedly they received. it's a good and appropriate investigative technique. >> you know what goes on in a situation like this. obviously we have a suspect or suspects at large, who produced a terror attack and killed people. so there is a real impetus to get answers, a political impetus obviously there's pressure to get answers, but at the same time the worst thing would be to go after the wrong people. what's
you heard pete williams. in an investigation, they see a picture, they want to talk to obviously anyone who might be seen putting down a package. that doesn't mean a person is a suspect, but certain -- >> when pete was given the description, it reminded me of the times that you and i, a lot of americans buy those 1,000 or 5,000-piece puzzle. magnify that by a million. they have more pictures or videos that you can imagine, but they'll do it in a me tick las incremental way just as they're...
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this information coming in from our own pete williams. we're working to confirm as many details, again, as possible. several officials say it appears two of these bombs went off near the finish line. again, this happening about two hours after the winners of the marathon. the explosion, itself, taking place right around the time the amateurs were starting to come through. finishing the race. let me take you back to the local coverage, hear more details of what they've been able to uncover. >> temperature of any situation by basically watching, absorbing how fast these police dar cars going. 15 minutes ago the police cars went screaming down the street. shortly after i arrived on the scene, one person said, i can't confirm it, he heard multiple devices have been found. i wanted to wait and so if we could find out more information. indeed, that is true. this area has been cleared out. i'm going to ask jeff, my colleague, to turn around. see more people are being cleared out. let's turn around and look here at st. james street, i should say.
this information coming in from our own pete williams. we're working to confirm as many details, again, as possible. several officials say it appears two of these bombs went off near the finish line. again, this happening about two hours after the winners of the marathon. the explosion, itself, taking place right around the time the amateurs were starting to come through. finishing the race. let me take you back to the local coverage, hear more details of what they've been able to uncover....
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i'll be joined by tom cost tello, pete williams and a number of experts. we'll play back the president's remarks a few hours ago. plus, we'll be joined by a father at the marathon honoring his son who was killed in iraq and why this photo of him has captured the hearts of so many. all coming up next. [ chainsaw buzzing ] humans. sometimes, life trips us up. sometimes, we trip ourselves up. and although the mistakes may seem to just keep coming at you, so do the solutions. like multi-policy discounts from liberty mutual insurance. save up to 10% just for combining your auto and home insurance. call liberty mutual insurance at... to speak with an insurance expert and ask about all the personalized savings available for when you get married, move into a new house, or add a car to your policy. personalized coverage and savings -- all the things humans need to make our world a little less imperfect. call... and ask about all the ways you could save. liberty mutual insurance -- responsibility. what's your policy? prego?! but i've been buying ragu for years. [ th
i'll be joined by tom cost tello, pete williams and a number of experts. we'll play back the president's remarks a few hours ago. plus, we'll be joined by a father at the marathon honoring his son who was killed in iraq and why this photo of him has captured the hearts of so many. all coming up next. [ chainsaw buzzing ] humans. sometimes, life trips us up. sometimes, we trip ourselves up. and although the mistakes may seem to just keep coming at you, so do the solutions. like multi-policy...
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thanks also to pete williams and kristin welker as well. again, we are waiting on jay carney to take the podium there to answer some questions about that suspicious letter. he will undoubtedly also be talking about the latest on the investigation to the boston bombings and the suspicious package that's being investig e investigated? senator shelby's office. that wraps things up for me. "now with alex wagner" is up next. what do you have. >>> we're following the breaking news regards the suspicious letter and awaiting for press secretary jay carney to take the podium. the search forrens as continues meanwhile, in boston with new details about the construction of the two bombs. mike at leiter will join us to discuss. plus behind the explosion of home-grown extremist groups. we'll talk about a new report on so-called patriot groups. >>> in the aftermath of boston, what is the future for reform efforts on guns and immigration. luke russert and bob herbert join the panel. all that and more, coming up next. and do you know your... blood type? a o
thanks also to pete williams and kristin welker as well. again, we are waiting on jay carney to take the podium there to answer some questions about that suspicious letter. he will undoubtedly also be talking about the latest on the investigation to the boston bombings and the suspicious package that's being investig e investigated? senator shelby's office. that wraps things up for me. "now with alex wagner" is up next. what do you have. >>> we're following the breaking news...
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pete williams, thanks. mike, we now have joining us from springfield, missouri, former attorney general john ashcroft. sir, thanks very much for being on the show this morning from your perspective with your experience and your background on all of this, what are we looking for at this point and what concerns you that still remains a mystery? >> well, the first priority here has to be public safety and to guard against any future attacks or follow-on attacks. unfortunately all of us are aware that we're in a critical period of time right now. this week has been not only this week but historically a very difficult time including oak bomb and with the fertilizer explosion last night that we don't know all of the facts about and with the boston situation this is a time when i think we shouldn't rush to any conclusions about whether any events are related or they're not related. and public safety and prevention of additional events ought to be at the top of our understanding. obviously it should also inform the
pete williams, thanks. mike, we now have joining us from springfield, missouri, former attorney general john ashcroft. sir, thanks very much for being on the show this morning from your perspective with your experience and your background on all of this, what are we looking for at this point and what concerns you that still remains a mystery? >> well, the first priority here has to be public safety and to guard against any future attacks or follow-on attacks. unfortunately all of us are...
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nbc news justice correspondent pete williams is standing by. i am just reading information that you put in regarding the components of this bomb and what authorities believe was used to make the explosives. what can you tell me? >> they say they were crudely made. that doesn't mean that they weren't powerful and they were. they were made with gunpowder, bbs and ball bearings packed inside a pressure cooker. let me point to a picture from a homeland security bulletin. we're going to get in real tight on these little pots down here. this is what pressure cookers look like. give it a second to focus and see how much tighter we can get. these are what pressure cookers look like in case you haven't seen them. these are rather inexpensive pressure cookers. in case you've not ever dealt with one. a pot with a cover on it that you can make basically air tight and food cooks faster. and then for at least a decade, they've been used to make bombs around the world. so inside is the explosive and the authorities believe it is gunpowder or smokeless powder.
nbc news justice correspondent pete williams is standing by. i am just reading information that you put in regarding the components of this bomb and what authorities believe was used to make the explosives. what can you tell me? >> they say they were crudely made. that doesn't mean that they weren't powerful and they were. they were made with gunpowder, bbs and ball bearings packed inside a pressure cooker. let me point to a picture from a homeland security bulletin. we're going to get in...
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and nbc news justice correspondent pete williams. pete, what do officials know? what are they saying? >> well, consider this interesting fact. i just talked to a person who has done a lot of bomb investigations who says that under normal conditions, it is possible to gather up 93 to 98% of the bomb devices themselves. even though they will be in little pieces and will be all bent up. most of the bombs will not be consumed by the explosion. so they're optimistic that they will have within a fairly short time here, it may take a couple of days, a pretty good idea of exactly how these devices were made. and already they say they have a rough idea of what components were used to make the bombs. unfortunately, these are very common methods. there is nothing that really stands out. they say that the pieces were assembled in a pressure cooker. that there were ball bearings and bbs inside. some kind of gunpowder used as the explosive within a timer to set it off. and placed on the scene in some sort of black sacks. whether they're backpacks or not isn't completely clear.
and nbc news justice correspondent pete williams. pete, what do officials know? what are they saying? >> well, consider this interesting fact. i just talked to a person who has done a lot of bomb investigations who says that under normal conditions, it is possible to gather up 93 to 98% of the bomb devices themselves. even though they will be in little pieces and will be all bent up. most of the bombs will not be consumed by the explosion. so they're optimistic that they will have within...
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now for much more on this, we have nbc justice correspondent pete williams from washington and nbc's kristen welker at the white house. pete, i'm going to start with you. what are we expecting to hear at this fbi briefing within the next hour? >> we're going to hear, i believe, why they're interested in these two particular people. what it is they've done. what they can be seen doing that attracts their attention and raises their interest and why they want to find and talk to them. they know what they look like. they know what they were doing. the fbi has always thought that the bombs were carried to the scene in black nylon duffel bags or backpacks. they an see on these pictures the men, these two men carrying heavy backpack and duffel bag. they believe the bombs were relatively heavy, probably around 20 pounds. they were in the vicinity of where the bombs were found. so, where they were set off. so they want to find them. they don't know who they are, and they're going to ask for public assistance, we believe, in identifying the men. and you may remember that they asked for both ph
now for much more on this, we have nbc justice correspondent pete williams from washington and nbc's kristen welker at the white house. pete, i'm going to start with you. what are we expecting to hear at this fbi briefing within the next hour? >> we're going to hear, i believe, why they're interested in these two particular people. what it is they've done. what they can be seen doing that attracts their attention and raises their interest and why they want to find and talk to them. they...
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the fbi, i think, goes a little stronger than that and says there isn't any. >> nbc's pete williams, thank you for your excellent work over the last few days, appreciate it. >> you bet. >>> up next, why our political system has zero tolerance for terrorism incidents but is fine with 30,000 gun deaths a year. stay with us. [ indistinct shouting ] ♪ [ indistinct shouting ] [ male announcer ] time and sales data. split-second stats. [ indistinct shouting ] ♪ it's so close to the options floor... [ indistinct shouting, bell dinging ] ...you'll bust your brain box. ♪ all on thinkorswim from td ameritrade. >>> if you want to see visible anger unlike any we've seen in recent memory coming from the president of the united states, you'll see it from the rose garden and then some after a senate minority killed gun reform. that's next. stations come over o mission a for a final go. this is for real this time. step seven point two one two. verify and lock. command is locked. five seconds. three, two, one. standing by for capture. the most innovative software on the planet... dragon is capt
the fbi, i think, goes a little stronger than that and says there isn't any. >> nbc's pete williams, thank you for your excellent work over the last few days, appreciate it. >> you bet. >>> up next, why our political system has zero tolerance for terrorism incidents but is fine with 30,000 gun deaths a year. stay with us. [ indistinct shouting ] ♪ [ indistinct shouting ] [ male announcer ] time and sales data. split-second stats. [ indistinct shouting ] ♪ it's so close...
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right now i want to go straight to nbc news justice correspondent, pete williams, in washington. pete, there's been a lot of back and forth this afternoon. straighten it out for us. what have you heard about a potential person of interest and where are we in this investigation? >> well, what we're told is that the pictures have been quite valuable. that they've found from a surveillance camera on a building -- and this makes sense if you think about the building surveillance camera being up high so that it can look down on the crowd and get a sort of bird's eye view. that they think that they see a picture of exactly what they're looking for. someone setting down a backpack or a duffel bag and then walking away. that's the kind of picture they're looking for. they have seen a face on that picture, we're told. they're now trying to figure out who that person is, find them and question them. that's where it stands right now. we're told they don't know who that person is, but it's a rapidly moving investigation. i'm sure everyone would like to have this whole thing wrapped up by the
right now i want to go straight to nbc news justice correspondent, pete williams, in washington. pete, there's been a lot of back and forth this afternoon. straighten it out for us. what have you heard about a potential person of interest and where are we in this investigation? >> well, what we're told is that the pictures have been quite valuable. that they've found from a surveillance camera on a building -- and this makes sense if you think about the building surveillance camera being...
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i mean what pete williams was report something what the white house was reports that the white house was getting. >> watching all that, i think there is a concern, i think that may be why they delayed the release of the photos. i know they want the help of the public. they didn't do it because of the way the media has been overreacting. >> it is certainly a fluid situation. we'll be bringing you all of the updates as they come. that's all for now, thank you to chuck and robert. i'll see you back here at noon eastern, "andrea mitchell reports" is coming up next. girl vo: i'm pretty conservative. very logical thinker. (laughs) i'm telling you right now, the girl back at home would absolutely not have taken a zip line in the jungle. (screams) i'm really glad that girl stayed at home. vo: expedia helps 30 million travelers a month find what they're looking for. one traveler at a time. expedia. find yours. what thats's great. it won't take long, will it? nah. ok! this won't take long, will it? no, not at all. how many of these can we do on our budget? more than you think. that didn't take
i mean what pete williams was report something what the white house was reports that the white house was getting. >> watching all that, i think there is a concern, i think that may be why they delayed the release of the photos. i know they want the help of the public. they didn't do it because of the way the media has been overreacting. >> it is certainly a fluid situation. we'll be bringing you all of the updates as they come. that's all for now, thank you to chuck and robert. i'll...
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we'll get to nbc justice correspondent pete williams. as i turn to you, this news conference is going on, we know that officials did conduct two bomb sweeps in the area yesterday, one before the race and then one around the finish line they said about an hour before runners started to cross the finish line. what else can you tell us? >> despite the confusion overnight, they did not find more than two bombs, the two that went off, the confusion comes from the fact that as the bombs went off, people dropped packages they were holding and ran away. when police arrived on scene, they had all of these packages they had to check. they didn't take a lot of time. they simply destroyed them if there were any questions. some confusion last night that there were some unexploded devices. now they say that's not the case. as for revere, an apartment belonging to a student here who was 20 years old from saudi arabia, he was seen running from the scene, authorities say they did not find anything that search to indicate that he had any involvement in th
we'll get to nbc justice correspondent pete williams. as i turn to you, this news conference is going on, we know that officials did conduct two bomb sweeps in the area yesterday, one before the race and then one around the finish line they said about an hour before runners started to cross the finish line. what else can you tell us? >> despite the confusion overnight, they did not find more than two bombs, the two that went off, the confusion comes from the fact that as the bombs went...
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nbc's pete williams reports these two individuals will also now appear on official fbi wanted posters. the fbi had a choice about how they were going to talk about these individuals today. it is a choice that has to be inflected by our recent history of misidentify iing suspects in high profile domestic attacks, attacks like the anthrax attacks in 9/11 and olympic park bombing in 1996. the names and faces that appeared in the press early on in those investigations did not end up being the individuals held responsible for those crimes. given that history, given the fact that news organizations like the "new york post" are already showing an eagerness and shamelessness about publishing jump to conclusion statements about suspects in the boston bombing, information that is wro wrong, we'll have more on that in a minute, given that history given what's going on with this intense interest and the media being rather irresponsible about some of these matters, the fbi could have played it safer than they did today, they could have labelled these individuals as persons of interest. they did no
nbc's pete williams reports these two individuals will also now appear on official fbi wanted posters. the fbi had a choice about how they were going to talk about these individuals today. it is a choice that has to be inflected by our recent history of misidentify iing suspects in high profile domestic attacks, attacks like the anthrax attacks in 9/11 and olympic park bombing in 1996. the names and faces that appeared in the press early on in those investigations did not end up being the...
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. >> nbc news correspondent pete williams has an update. what are you hearing regarding this video? >> video and still pictures is my understanding, tamron. >> yeah. >> we may see them today, we may not. this is kind of a back-and-forth thing. it seems, i guess, likely at this point that we will. and it should be clear if they do show these pictures today, these are the people they're most interested in talking to. you know, i don't think anyone at this point is saying the fbi has quote/unquote, found the bombers. they see the faces but they don't know who they are and if they show them publicly, they're going to be asking for public help to identify them so they can find them, talk to them and figure out what was going on there. it's always a difficult job to balance this, tamron, because on one hand the agented would prefer, i'm sure, to conduct this investigation on their own with a lot of tips that will turn out to be wrong but at the same time the longer they way, the more these people would get away or much worse try to do it again. there's competing pressures there. if they d
. >> nbc news correspondent pete williams has an update. what are you hearing regarding this video? >> video and still pictures is my understanding, tamron. >> yeah. >> we may see them today, we may not. this is kind of a back-and-forth thing. it seems, i guess, likely at this point that we will. and it should be clear if they do show these pictures today, these are the people they're most interested in talking to. you know, i don't think anyone at this point is saying...
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all questions to be pursued. >> pete williams in washington, pete, as always, thank you very much. >>> nbc's katy tur is at brigham and women's hospital in boston. they treated about 30 victims from the bombing. katy good morning to you. >> reporter: there are at least 126 patients at area hospitals that number is expected to grow as people wake up this morning and realize they may need medical attention. there is a major police presence but it has been stepped down slightly as the morning has gone on. you are now allowed to enter the hospital. there are two still in critical condition, nine others who have limb threatening moves, they might need amputations. at boston children's hospital they are treating ten patients and we are told the youngest patient being treated anywhere could be as young as 2 years old. the boston police department has confirmed three people are dead and our affiliate whdh has confirmed one of them is an 8-year-old boy named martin richard, he is from dorchester and that community is just in a state of disbelief right now. we do expect updates on conditions of
all questions to be pursued. >> pete williams in washington, pete, as always, thank you very much. >>> nbc's katy tur is at brigham and women's hospital in boston. they treated about 30 victims from the bombing. katy good morning to you. >> reporter: there are at least 126 patients at area hospitals that number is expected to grow as people wake up this morning and realize they may need medical attention. there is a major police presence but it has been stepped down...
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nbc news justice correspondent pete williams is outside the high court. this surrounds a party based in utah, myriad genetics. tell us about this case. >> reporter: they have a pat owned a gene used to test for the likelihood that a person will get either breast or ovarian cancer. the question is, can they patent the gene itself? and it would appear from today's argument, that the supreme court is prepared to say no. now, myriad has said, if the supreme court rules against and it several other companies are lining up against it, would it make it much harder to attract investment. finding these genes and discovering the tests and cures is very expensive. the court seemed worry that you could patent something that is basically not the work of man. it is the work of nature. there is a dispute about whether you isolate the gene, the majority of the justices didn't seem to think it is new enough to warrant a patent. it would be pun thing they said, if you found a plant in the amazon that had a chemical that could cure cancer. you might be able to get a patent
nbc news justice correspondent pete williams is outside the high court. this surrounds a party based in utah, myriad genetics. tell us about this case. >> reporter: they have a pat owned a gene used to test for the likelihood that a person will get either breast or ovarian cancer. the question is, can they patent the gene itself? and it would appear from today's argument, that the supreme court is prepared to say no. now, myriad has said, if the supreme court rules against and it several...
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. >>> let's go to pete williams who is live in washington. pete, what are you hearing about the investigation to the bombings in boston? >> right. it's all about putting pieces of puzzles together. first of all, the devices themselves are here in the suburban washington in the fbi's crime lab where they will try to reinstruct them. they believe they were carried to the scene in black nylon duffel bags and say that because of the weight that each device probably weighed 20 pounds filled with gun powder and shrapnel and in pressure cookers. you can see the brand name of the pressure cookers in a couple of the pictures that we have obtained. the second part of it is the pictures themselves that they are asking people to send in and they are getting a huge amount, so far, three terra bytes of data that is thousands of hours of video and still pictures. they want more. this is from our affiliate in boston. it shows in the first picture what appears to be a trash bag next to the green thing is a trash container and looking at whether the bombs migh
. >>> let's go to pete williams who is live in washington. pete, what are you hearing about the investigation to the bombings in boston? >> right. it's all about putting pieces of puzzles together. first of all, the devices themselves are here in the suburban washington in the fbi's crime lab where they will try to reinstruct them. they believe they were carried to the scene in black nylon duffel bags and say that because of the weight that each device probably weighed 20 pounds...